What do people think of the idea of OSE?
What we are trying to do is to quickly and accurately communicate the idea of what we are trying to do to people, so that they can decide if they want to help us. Is there a way we can find out what people think about the idea of OSE when they first hear it?
What is the best way to explain the idea? Should it be the "core message" of "building the world's first replicable, open source, off-grid Global Village"?
Are there preconceptions or misconceptions they have when they hear the core idea?
If they understand the core idea, what do they think of it?
Do they think it's the right thing to do? Do they wonder why we don't just get all our stuff at Wal-Mart?
Is there a way we can get meaningful feedback from people? How do we find this stuff out? Who whould we ask? Where should we ask? In person, or online? By voice, or by email? Can we quantify their responses to see, for example, how many people think we should just get everything from Wal-Mart?
If you have any ideas, please share them here, thanks!
-Jeremy
Comments
You can do questionnaires and analyze the responses, and that's a good idea. What you can't measure is why people click away, or don't respond. All you can do is refine your core message and present it as clearly and as simply as possible.
"Open Source Ecology" is abstract and vague. "Building the world’s first replicable, open source, modern off-grid global village" is WAY too wordy. "to transcend survival and evolve to freedom" is gibberish. I will survive or not, I won't transcend survival. My DNA is what it is, I'm not going to evolve to anything.
I think the core message is something like "Land + Technology = Abundance" or maybe "Better Living through Green Technology" or "Open Source Village" or "Green Tech Farm".
Heh, "Green Tech Farm"... I got it down to three syllables! Maybe "Open Source Abundance" as a subtitle (six syllables). Seriously, you've got to squeeze your message down to its essence. You can't get the whole message across at once, you have to leave things out.
If you can BAM! grab the viewer's attention, THEN you can talk about the world's first yada yada yada.
I agree in general with what Dan has to say, though the "greenness" of some of the technologies might be questionable, but that applies to most civilisation support technologies. "Green" is also one of those words that is losing it's impact and seems to be coming to be an anti-concept of what it was originally intended to convey thanks to modern marketing.
What about "Open Source Civilisation"? It conveys the fact that the whole project is about preserving and sharing civilisation. It's not about sharing how we can return to some kind of hunter gatherer subsistence abundance, it's about the infrastructure for living a civilised life being under the control of the individual, isn't it? Perhaps civilisation is too broad, and needs to be narrowed back to something more personal, existence, lifestyle, community, et al, that doesn't rely on the vagueness of the definition or understanding of civilisation?
Good insight Geoff! Open Source Civiliation maybe...
Jeremy
I agree with Geoff that we need to differentiate ourselves from the primitivists. However, at the same time we need to position ourselves as an alternative to the status quo, and "civilization" is not the right word for that. "Farm" or "village" would work.
Jeremy, it occurs to me that a bit of page view analysis might give some empirical answers as to what interests people. It would be like a questionnaire, except that people wouldn't know they were taking it. I know MediaWiki keeps page view stats, but we might have to do some extra SQL to get what we need. Also, we'd have to do a bit of page editing.
We have statcounter.com set up for all of the sites and are tracking everything. How would you propose we do a "page view questionare" ? You can set up wiki pages to see if they start to get hits and stuff, I think the wiki also has the link to the statcounter at the very bottom of every page "View my stats": http://my.statcounter.com/project/standard/stats.php?project_id=4557254&...
Thanks for your help!
Jeremy
The basic idea is to put your name and tag line at the top of the main page:
Open Source Ecology
Building the ... evolve to freedom
Then you chunk the tag line and link to a special page for each chunk:
Building --> page 1
the world's first --> page 2
...
evolve to freedom --> page n
The setup has to be symmetric; pages 1 through n have only one incoming link, and that from the main page. You don't want a page to get more hits just because it has more incoming links.
Then you collect stats for each page. For example, if "transcend survival" gets a lot of hits, then you might want to emphasize that part of your vision. If "replicable" gets very few hits, you might consider dropping it from the tag line.
MediaWiki collects stats on page views. If you put Category:Q1 in pages 1 through n, and modified Special:PopularPages to display stats for pages in Category Q1, you'd have your information.
Speaking of StatCounter, take a look at the Visit Length stats. Half your visits are less than 5 seconds, meaning people who arrive for whatever reason, see nothing of interest, and hit the Back button. Some of them are people who got there by mistake and wouldn't be interested anyway, but others may be interested if you can get their attention.
Interesting idea, and it could help if it was implemented, but I doubt the effectiveness relative to the time and effort involved in implementing it. Maybe you could help put it together?
Jeremy
Jeremy, I'm willing to do much of the work. However, let's set aside my specific suggestion for the moment. Someone may have a better idea. Instead, let's focus on the underlying question:
If not, there's no point in collecting the data. If your support for the idea is only lukewarm, if you're not excited about the possibilities, it's probably not worth the bother. No problem. There will be other ideas.
We have been
modifying the message a lot lately. We have no ego projections or attachments to the "core message." Whatever
combination of words or images or other sensory information
quickly and effectively communicates the thoughts and feelings of the "vision," of social transofrmation through
off-grid villages, without changing the "vision" itself is what we are
after.
Very interesting. If "social transformation through off-grid villages" is your vision, why not say that, in those words?
You just put "social transformation" first,but the current tag line ("building the world's first...") doesn't even mention social transformation. It starts with "building", goes on to describe what you're building, and way at the end says "transcend survival and evolve to freedom", which could be interpreted as transformation for individuals and small groups, as opposed to society at large.
If social transformation is the core message, I really think you have to feature that very prominently on the web site, because there is so much detail about the engineering. Let's try it, just to see how it looks:
Open Source Ecology
Social transformation through off-grid villages
"transformation for individuals and small groups" that's what societal transformation is. Societies are made of individuals. Without individuals a society doesn't exist. Like a forest without trees. I think the current core message seems to work fine. If you can implement some kind of metric to find a better one, then please do! You should also understand the entire idea first, in order to be able to determine if the message correctly communicates it. Please read the OSE Proposal document for the entire theory: http://openfarmtech.org/index.php?title=Proposal_2008
Thank you for your help Dan!
Jeremy, we're not on the same page here. You think the current message works fine. I think it's horrible! Too long, too much gibberish! This is not rocket science. Pick up the paper, turn on the TV... short, simple, clear is what works. If you don't agree that shorter is almost always better, you won't like what I come up with.
As for the difference between individual transformation and social transformation, consider the eco-village movement. Individuals and small groups are transformed, but the effect on the larger society is statistically insignificant.
So is the core message social transformation or not? Don't tell me social transformation and individual transformation are really the same thing. Don't tell me to read the entire theory. Tell me "yes, social transformation is the goal, and open source technology is how we get there." Or "no, the technology is our core message, but we think social transformation is a likely byproduct." Or whatever, as long as it's short, simple and clear.
And since this thread started by asking for feedback: "social transformation" suggests a leftist political agenda... while "transcend survival" and "evolve to freedom" sound more New Age or Human Potential Movement...
Focusing on the specific language is nice, but what really needs to
happen is to actually get people into these ideas. People can't dive very deep into The Factor E
project because it is poorly cited. When they read an article they can't go much further.
For example, the pattern language page never mentioned
(until I edited it) Christopher Alexander, who came up with the idea.
People
will be more engaged when they can delve into ideas DIRECTLY from the
material on Factor E. People can't add because the project gives them
very little they can do, other than follow a master plan.
I'm
going to be posting about Pattern Languages starting soon (just got
back from a big trip and am really busy) and the process of building
community-centric design.
I tried to include a lot of quotations by people that influenced me in the Factor E in 5 Minutes handout. That kind of stuff needs to happen more.
^ I wrote this, sorry, wasn't logged in
Where should these quotes and links be? I was working on the OSE Proposal wiki pages a bit and they have cites and stuff now. Also I added the wikipedia cite extention to the OSE wiki so you can cite references and stuff like wikipedia now.
I would put quotations in related articles in the OSE wiki, so when you find something in a book, throw it into the wiki under a relevant section. Also, peppering them into the blog posts is a good idea also
Okay, what areas of the wiki exactly, like the about OSE and main page
and the OSE Proposal? Do the product design rationale parts really need
them or should they be in a "research and supporting info" section?
Marcin was doing it with blog posts and in the distillations video
posts. I'll remind him to do it more.
One thing that may be a turnoff is bad or missing links. Every time I tried to click on volunteer I got nowhere.
I think what you are trying to do is exactly what is needed. One thing that scares a lot of people off is fear of being labeled. Hippies, religions quacks, extremeists etc. I have talked to a dozen families over the last weekend who are looking for this. They just fear government intervention in some way shape or form.
The people you are going to find in many cases are less "civilized" people. Most "civilized" people won't bend over to pick up a penny, let alone slaughter their own chicken and grow their own vegetables.
Enlighten yourselves to some alternative type crowds and more people will see what you are really trying to do, but you need fronteirsmen. You need primitivists. You need bikers, hippies, geeks, dweebs, ghetto punks, convicts. People who just need a chance at a new life, a new existence.
I ran across this site..
I've been living as some of you call 'primitive' for a long time.
We call it, country folk..: )
Your site is a bit confusing..
I'm not being sarcastic but there does'nt seem to be alot of organization.
Everybody seems to be doing different things and can't agree on what they are doing..
From what I'm reading, looks like a Chinese fire drill.
I'm an old soldier..make it simple.
What exactly is your mission?
Maybe I can be of some help.
We've recently clarified our current mission into: Developing
technology to enable easily copied high-tech resilient communities.
We're still trying to organize the site but we don't have much time, unless someone wants to step up and help out.
Any ideas on how we can get people to agree on what they should be doing?
If you find something you can help with please take charge!
You just said: Developing technology to enable easily copied high-tech resilient communities.
The wiki says: Open Source Ecology is a movement dedicated to the collaborative development of the world's first replicable, open source, modern off-grid "global village."
The forum says: Building the world’s first replicable, open source, modern off-grid
resilient community - to transcend survival and evolve to freedom
The sidebar on the blog says: We are farmer scientists - working to develop a world class research
center for decentralization technologies using open source permaculture
and technology to work together for providing basic needs and self
replicating the entire operation at the cost of scrap metal.
The Organizational Strategy wiki page says: The goal of Open Source Ecology is to develop an ecology of appropriate technology products and services that promote right livelihoods.
Anon finds all of this confusing and wonders what exactly the mission is. A movement, or scientists? Developing or building? Developing technology or an ecology of products and services? Building a village, a community or a research center?
Of all the mission statements, the most recent version is the shortest and easiest to understand. If that really is the new mission, you should use it everywhere.
After readng this sites questions/answers/projects etc..if I may make a suggestion.
I'm a blacksmith, bladesmith and have other skills.
I'm also a former soldier.
I've been living in the mountains for a long time.
I also have solar and wind that I put together from junk.
I raise livestock that I eat.
My heat is a wood stove and solar heater.
I hunt for deer and elk because...I like deer and elk.
I also tan the buckskin.
I'm wearing the moccasins now.
If you don't know how to hunt..learn.
You may need the meat.
I do this because I like it..and I know how.
Just a few suggestions.
Stop with the 'tech' talk.
Use the K.I.S.S. principle.
(Keep It Simple....)
Also use this principle in anything you do or fabricate.
The more complicated it is, the easier it is to stop up the plumbing..
If it can be bent, broken, shattered or run over..it will in that enviorment.
Philosophical ideas and technical terms are fine for the classroom, but what the book says does'nt mean it will work in a real life scenario.
I assume you want a self sustaining community able to manufacture it's own tools, technology etc.
My suggestion is, use existing technoloy and work from there.
Don't try to reinvent the wheel..it's still a wheel.
You don't start putting a roof on and then the trusses.
You have to have a foundation first before you can build a house.
The same holds true with the skills your going to need.
Thats' your foundation.
Leave the 'experimentation' to later when the foundation is layed and you have a working farm/ranch..whatever.
I've been smithing for 30 years and I'm still learning
You have to learn these skills and it's not a 'shake and bake' thing by reading a book.
You learn by alot of sweat and blisters and in some cases some cuss words.
It's not a thing where you get tired after a few days and go home and brag to the class..'see what I did'
You live there.
It's your home.
You either make it, or leave.
If your caught in a blizzard or you a tree falls on you, they find you in the spring.
I'm not being dramatic, but that's real life in this lifestyle.
2nd suggestion:
Again, don't reinvent the wheel..it's still a wheel..
Give you an example.
The lathe project.
Making a lathe is a nice project for someone who does'nt have anything better to do.
But the time you spend on the lathe, materials, chucks, tooling, motors, etc, you could buy a good secound hand lathe., when you could be using the lathe to build something.
You can pickup a good old Southbend for example for about $800.00-$900.00 sometimes with chucks and tooling if you do some shopping.
Before you buy one, take someone with you to ensure it's accurate, the castings not cracked etc.
Accurancy is paramount or all your doing is shaving metal.
If the centers you need is less than 19", you may get by with a Chinese model for about $600.00 if your not doing any heavy shafts or the like.
You can build another lathe from that lathe. (A lathe can make itself..)
Most of all, learn to use it.
It does'nt do any good just sitting there looking pretty.
You can cast a lathe, but that means you must know casting and metal.
Casting is dangerous (I do it..) and not for the novice.
It involves extremely high tempertures, in some cases gas, and the furnance has to be made correctly or it's an accident ready to happen.
Look at the ALBANA (blacksmithing sites and ask questions or have a smith or iron monger help you.)
Some of these guys are generational smiths.
You will also have to know tempering/hardening techniques if you wish to make your own tooling or items made from high carbon steels.
You'll also have to know high carbon steels (natch)
Energy:
Again old technology.
Wind, solar, hydro etc..
If you can solder and have a working knowledge of electrical theory, wood and metal, you can build your own panels.
Wind turbines can be made from an old Delco Remy alternator using permamant magnet rotors and rewound stators.
You can tap into the A.C at the rectifier and in this way use smaller wire to the controller.
We did it as kids.
Or you can make your own rotor and stators.
It's not rocket science.
You can buy a generator, or make one using a fur cylinder engine (Diesel engine from a Rabbit is nice) and a generator head.
For simple battery charging, you can use a lawn mower engine and a Delco alternator
Again, keep it simple until your established.
Garden:
Use only non genetically modified seeds.
Alot of this crap they sell, you can't save the seeds for the next planting.
Use crops that are hardy for your climate.
Same goes with livestock.
I have chickens that are bred for this climate and can free range.
If feed gets short, they can forage.
Most important, do one project at a time and finish it.
Having too many irons in the fire wastes time and material and nothing gets done.
Most important, no one learns anything and people start milling around and getting in everyones way.
If they don't want to work, go home..
Assign specific tasks.
Assign work details to certain people and complete it.
What your doing is not new.
But your looking at a different mentality today where alot of these skills were lost for Ipods and Oprah and what they do know, they complicate.
My dear ol' momma used to say 'Talks cheap..if your going to down that tree, it takes an axe and a man to swing it."
Meaning, your looking at alot of muscle work to get anything done and not alot of time for philosophical discussions.
Living off grid or in an enviorment your suggesting is not a catwalk.
Your also looking at snows, rains, flooding, forest fires, droughts and anything nature can throw at you.
If the people are not ready, people in this community are going to go home when the first disaster hits (and it will..trust me..Murphy's Law..) or get stuck in a place and not have a clue how to get out.
Most of the people I have seen attempt this, are city people who don't have a clue.
They'll move into the Pacific Northwest, Alaska or other remote place without T.V. thinking of the cute deer and cuddly bears.
When reality hits them about the hardships, weather and accidents., they are ready to go back to L.A. on the next airplane.
(Provided they are'nt snowed in, flooded out and still have a road to walk on...)
You have to train and train hard.
Not fair, just the facts of life.
I just touched on the basics.
Hope you get the idea.
If you have any questions, ask.
Good luck.
I think you've missed some of the point of Factor e Farm and OSE. For instance, it's not about a lathe for one community, it's about a design for a lathe for any community, anywhere on earth, so they can make it for themselves. The same applies to all other items under development.
Not all populations have the same access to the excess of Western society to be able to purchase the cast-off equipment. Not even all Westerners can afford to take advantage of this excess.
This project is about empowering people, making it so that they can take advantage of the higher technologies that are currently beyond their reach. Your excellent advice, evidently coming from a lot of experience, would be perfect if the project was about creating a single community, but as has been said here before, it's not about re-doing what has already been done, not about exploring the well trodden ground, but about breaking new ground.
Hunting, smithing, food growing, beer brewing etc are all very valuable skills, but they are skills that can be learned in any number of places. There aren't many places where you can learn how to build your own tractor, CEB press, lathe, etc etc.
Again, not to sound redundant, but it looks to me like your trying to reinvent the wheel.
As far as plans for tractors, lathes and other machinary you can make yourself..here is a link.
It also had some farm tools.
In the lathes and milling section, you will find plans for lathes and mills.
http://www.vintageprojects.com/
As you can see, these plans are some 50 years old.
There are plans for cast lathes, some cast parts..or a whole lathe or mill built from common stock found in any steel yard.
These plans can be scaled up or down and added to (CNC..type of drive..thread cutting etc..) depending on what you want.
It's really old stuff and anyone with some machinist or mechanical background can build one.
There are other plans you can find to build CNC mills and lathes, vaccum machines for plastic parts, plastic moulding etc.
I built the Gingery lathe that is made from cast parts.
It's alot of work for the type of lathe your getting.
I did it to be honest, because I have too much time on my hands and it was for grins and chuckles between jobs.
I use a Soutbend lathe.
The only way I would build a lathe for serious work if I was in a survival situation.
And then, only if I could'nt salvage one.
Ask any mechanic who builds engines.
He did'nt just buy a set of tools and start to build a V-8.
It takes alot of training, skill and dedication that spans over years before a person is a master of that trade and trusted to build a quality engine.
Another example, I have observed and read about 'intentional communities' mostly based on 'eco' philosophy.
They have the idea all they have to do is move to some raw land, build a cob house, put a rocket stove in made from junk and grow a few acres of veggies to feed 30 people.
They use the word 'sustainable', but the fact of the matter is, most could'nt grow enough food to be 'sustainable' with the techniques they use and lack of real world skills.
It looks to be more of a gee whiz thing to go to the woods.
My point is, you have to walk before you can crawl.
The "Amish' model is probably the best model for basic 'sustainable' skills.
But even the Amish trade or barter with other communities for skills or commodities the other community does'nt have.
I suggested hunting, smithing, carpentry, food produce etc, because these are very basic skills needed for just living.
I would suggest. learn to first feed, house and produce the basics before trying to build lathes or tractors...: )
Great insights, thanks! We'll be considering some of these.
Great post by mr. anon!
I'v never been that off grid, but i have been snowed in so bad that they car couldnt move and we had to pull a sledge for a few hours just to go shopping (when we got sick and tired of eating nothing but eggs, hehe) . I'v also been in the middle of a storm with no power (something must'v disconected us a few hours before the storm hit, and we had candles all over the place instead while the storm ripped up trees with root around our house (our stable was about a meter from having the end wall crushed by a hugh branch. these things do happen and it pays to be prepared when they do.
Also what he says about generelly living offgrid makes a lot of sense!
I say again, great post!
I found that Kerosene lanterns are probably the best option.
Propane lanterns are ok, but you need 'propane' and mantles.
I have four or five of them on hand, but kerosene lanterns are simple and easy to repair.
You can make wicks for kerosene lanterns from old denim bluejeans in a pinch.
I suggest the "Hurricane' metal lanterns and not the glass decorative type in case they take a hit or a fall.
Have about 5-10 gallons of kerosene on hand.
Harbor Freight makes a 45 watt solar kit that can charge a battery, cell phone, run a radio and lights...
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90599
They are thin film panels.
The trick to these panels is to change the 14 gauge wiring to 12 gauge to boost the panels output.
Make sure all connections is soldered.
I've had some running for three years in snow, ice and rain and they are still going strong.
The set runs about $250.00 but they have been on sale for as cheap as $179.00.
With the Harbor Freight coupon, you can get $20.00 off.
Add two or three sets and get a solar charger, golf cart batteries and you have a cheap date in solar power for emergencies.
Add a modified Delco permanant magnet alternator and weld up a wind gennie and you have another 5-20 amps into the batteries.
Add a 1500 watt invertor and you can run your drill and circular saw.
Add a 2500-3500 watt generator and you can run your saw a long time.
While your running your saw, build a small barn..then a house..
Put some chickens in your barn your just built and sell the eggs to buy a tiller.
Till some ground for your veggies.
Go to the mountain and pick some huckleberries and make jam.
Trade some eggs to the farmer down the road for some beef.
Ask your significant other to fry up some eggs and steaks for breakfast.
Have toast and some jam you made.
Life is good.
See..simple..: )
Had an idea that may get you more true fans. What do you think about offering it as a yearly payment? It may be better to advertise it as 120 a year. And no concrete contract to make it 2 years. Make it up to them if they want to fund it the second year. 120 is not allot of money to fund a project for a year and it sounds much easier over setting up a monthly $10 payment plan. If we were talking to people in the third world the $10 a month payment is cool but 120 a year may be a better sell. You could offer both just put the 120 at the forefront. Just trying to think of ways to make the true fans grow.
Yes 2 more cents from the lost chief hahaha
We're trying to make it visible that people can do the subscription or a one time donation. Check out the support page and the brochure and see what you think:
http://openfarmtech.org/index.php?title=Support_Open_Source_Ecology
http://openfarmtech.org/index.php?title=OSE_Trifold_Brochure
Jeremy
First of all cogratulations to all at OSE for an idea
whose time has come. Exciting stuff!
However, you don't adress what I
think is an important point in Lostchief post: that two years funding might make it harder for some people (like myself) to consider becoming True Fans. Why not give people the option of subscribing for one year only?
Also, I think for acurateness sake the label Open Source Ecology should be changed to Open Source Eco-Technology or something similar. If you think about it, ecology is a science. There are no patents on science, no copyrights. Or am I missing something?
Hi, long time no see. Its been about 4-6 months since I droped in on you guys, and I think things are looking great. The site looks better, the bi lines read better, the projects are more up front, and the blog is short and sweet. The videos are harder to find though.. Maybe grab the RSS from your video channels and have them display on your front page. Get it all feeding to your front page I reckon.
I really like the line: transending survivial, evoloving to freedom. It say a lot without pinning you down.
I agree that you appear very technical and as a result it is not easy to get into where you're at, and hardy to see where I might be able to help. I'm not sure this is a bad thing though. Based on where you appeared to be 4 months ago, to now.. you are progressing and maturing.. and you have attracted a lot more interest! I think I like the complexity, and the openness that comes with it. I feel like I can get to know you all through this complexity somehow. I'm not sure you want easy yet. I'm not sure you want every tom dick and harry giving you more coordination work to do.
So what am I saying? Not sure really.. words of encouragment. You are evolving at what appears to be a very rapid pace, and that has risks. Don't get too self concious at this stage, just keep going, and keep it happy, fun (if you can). Your work is VERY impressive, and inspires me a lot. Off to spend an hour or so roaming your web.
Thanks! I'll look for something that can keep the videos updated.
I'm not into strategy, so I'll skip most of the questions. I'll just give my opinion. I think this project is excellent. The only problem is, it involves knowledge about agriculture and mechanics that I frankly know absolutely nothing about. At this point, I can't even imagine doing it. I don't even understand how this works; you grow food, doesn't that take a year ? How do you live before it's there ? And then, doesn't it take a while to eat them ? Doesn't the rest go rot before you're done ?
So I think there's this disconnect with what you propose. I'm sure it works, since you're doing it, but I can't "see" it working.
Thanks for the insight! I'll see if we can write something on the wiki that can explain these things.
Basically you would need to start off with 6 months to 1 or 2 years of surplus food from someone else. Currently people are able to buy bulk foods easily, so you could start with that, as everyone should.
http://survivalacres.com/dehydrated/foodplans.html
Then you start putting in your garden, with fast growing food that Ben could recommend. I moved here in December, and in the spring we started planting and eating the eggs from the chickens, and just a few days ago we had an entire meal from the garden. It's still not enough to live off of entirely right now but it's getting there with Ben's help. If we had gotten strawberries last year we could have propagated them in spring and they would be comming in soon. Ben says that you can start planting stuff that is harvested at different times, so you aren't getting a lot of stuff at once but small things all the time.
As for storage, you need to preserve the harvested food through various methods such as canning, or freeze dryed powder. Nick canned some food from a garden he did last year, which tasted pretty good over the winter, and the freeze dried powder machine is part of the construction set.
Once you've got the food growing and getting preserved easily you should be set. I guess it's a matter of getting the process optimized and building better tools to do it. We're still working on the tools to make it even easier. As we progress we're trying to make it open source, so that anyone can understand how to do it.
Does that make sense?
Well it certainly does more than before. Thanks.
After coming here from the Zeitgeist site that someone told me about, I find the OSE to be more applicable, practical, and realistic. I was a bit bewildered by the chaotic layout of the site(s), however.
As to the context of the message, I understand that it is an open source community creation kit. I don't think there is an easy way to explain the idea in just a small bit of text though. Most likely, people coming to the site will be versed in open source development previously. This endeavour however is not related to the tech fields and so may confuse them. I can also see that it would be very hard to convince many people to trade their current lives for ones that may require more physical effort and responsibility on their part.
And as a brief response to why this is a good idea versus just using previously created equipment, I think it's important to note that just because we currently have access to equipment that lasts doesn't mean that everyone does, nor does it mean in the future we will. To be able to put something in place that all can create themselves or assist others in creating is a very important step in the process of our societal evolution.
Sorry about the layout, we're going through some growing pains and will eventually move most content to OpenSourceEcology.org where it should be more organized.
In regards to the physical effort and responsibilty, perhaps we could emphasize that after the initial higher physical effort stage that there isn't that much effort in the maintenance phase, and that most people could use a little more physical labor to stay healthy. For example:
*Walking into the garden or orchard to pick some food and eat it. But you also have to do a little maintenance every year, and there's all the labor of setting it all up at first.
versus:
*Just going to the fridge and popping something into the microwave. But that also includes getting into the SUV (or "Prius" if you're "green") to drive to the grocery store, to buy food with monetary notes that you had to go to work to get.
It does take much more responsiblity though, and again most people could also use more responsibility. (Note all the people that went out and got loans for houses they couldn't afford, and are now getting evicted from.) It's hard to cultivate responsibility though, I guess it has to start at a young age.
Thanks for the insights, we'll try to include them in our explanations!
I like it. It's a cross of burning man, Richand Stallman, the state Ag coop extension, with plasma cutters thrown in for good measure.
Hello...I just want to tell you that I love what you're doing and if it wasn't for my wife I'd have quit my job and come down there to help out by now although I don't know that you'd have much use for me since I don't have any particular skills and I'm mechanically inclined. Anyways I'll justgive you a couple of my observations. The first thing that strikes me is that the site seems like the equivalent of a ghost town. There doesn't seem to be much happening. Any posts I see are old. This could just be because I don't have much experience with internet sites and I just don't know where to look.
Another thing is that your projects seem to be stalled. Are there problems?
If I'm wrong about lack of activity, I'm sorry about that. It just seems that way. I would suggest that if there are no problems....well let me rephrase that. If there is progress being made, perhaps it would be a good Idea to give recent devellopments a place of prominence on your home page because, if I'm not mistaken, you need financial assistance in the way of donations and people aren't going to want to send money to a site that seems like it might shut down any day. To tell you the truth that's what has held me back from sending money.
How many people do you have there now? I remember reading something about you inviting people to invest in a part of the project for something like ten thousand dollars. Were there any takers, and what all did that deal entail? Do you think it might help to align yourselves more closely with The Venus Project /The Zeitgeist Movement ? That is where I first heard about you and you must know that there are many people there that want to do something before it's too late. I have steered some people to this site, that were looking for something constructive to do.
I think it would be great if there was a link to this site from theirs. I really want to see you succeed at this.
I'm not sure about the actual pulse of the OSE project, as I'm still pretty much an outsider looking in, but I am certain that what you see on the various webpages is symptomatic of an un-maintained server that may have been hacked?
Many of the links on this site are currently dead, and no matter what the reason, the result to the public observer is still the same. I am willing to contribute also, and perhaps more valuably contribute skills and sweat, but I have to wonder what I'm contributing to, or even how to go about doing so, when the projects' major communication tools to the outside world are looking like a ghost town.
In the spirit of Open Source, when I found something of value in the past, I downloaded it to my own computer, so I have more than enough information to go on my merry way and build my own paradise, but I can't give back if I can't use the forums to share what I've gotten and/or learned, and that's where the Open Source part starts to break down... I feel compelled to hang around and hope that the eroded functionality of the OSE community web sites is a temporary growing pain, and that they will be back up to at least normal from prior conditions, if not a new & improved version, but this sure is drawing on one's patience at times...
Ditto that
It looks like OSE is either going through some difficulties or possibly shut/shutting down. Marcin either doesn't know how to fix the wiki or has deleted it and the blog, and for some reason has left this site up or it could be that the server that the wiki and blog were on was hacked and deleted and this site is on another server.
Right now, it looks like we're all on our own. OSE is Marcin Jakubowski, and he cannot help you. Do the best you can to make friends and prepare.
I have come to the conclusion that most problems are people problems, so working with people is going to be one of the things you will need to be very good at. So study Neuro-Linguistic Programming, influence, etc.
Marcin does (or did?) respond to email directly, so I won't count him out/gone. When I had asked what was going on with the downed site, his response didn't make sense to me (I professionally troubleshoot servers, so may have been able to help), and didn't sound like it matched the symptoms I was seeing from the outside, but again, I'm a nobody as far as he knows, and he didn't have any reason to trust me as a stranger, and didn't know me from Adam.
When I last checked 30 seconds ago, the Openfarmtech site/wiki was back up (yeah!!), so again, something seems to be stirring.
BTW, Marcin, if you are reading this, I really do that kind of stuff for a living, so if IT support is needed to further the OSE, please drop me a line -- it's the least I can do to help, as the info I've already gleaned from the OSE will end up saving me easily $40K down the road :)
Allen
Big hello from Portugal.
Congrats on the idea and iniciative of building a self-suficient ecologic vilage.
i was reading a forum about reprap machines and then found a link into this great project.
here some ideas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLQ4EtWVDdM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbKtXdD5CBI&feature=related
my rush idea drawing :)
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsVKfQJ
this needs better inprovements and tests.
best regards
A name should be short, descriptive and convey the essential concept(s). In this case, the name must include the modifier 'open source' because that is the major thrust of the project. Designs and plans for tools are developed and made freely available to all on the Internet.
Next we must have a word (or two) to convey what is being open sourced. Ecology is study of the interactions between organisms and their environment. Failing to establish and maintain functional relationships with the planet, other species and other humans (collectively, the environment) is the reason modern humans are flunking earth school. Largely, we lack the necessary tools, skills, knowledge and designs for the task. This project aims to develop and share what is needed in an open source Internet format through a revolving, evolving, iterative global study process.
In sum, I doubt we can improve on the name, Open Source Ecology. How could you possibly say all this with fewer words?
BTW, it's still not too late for humanity to pass the class, but it will take the whole-hearted effort of a great many people.
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